A place where sceptics can exchange their views

Wednesday, 17 December 2014

Let's lay it on the line and have another referendum about EU membership.

The referendum

In 1975 after Britain had been a member of the EEC for over 2 years we had a referendum about continuing membership.

The overwhelming majority of the country decided to remain as a member state. This should have been the end of the political shenanigans of both the left wing of the Labour Party and the right wing of the Conservative party. It was the end of the matter as far as most of the nation was concerned and to all intents and purposes the vast majority of people got on with their lives as both Britons and Europeans.

A referendum should not be entered into lightly for any political cause as it is a decision which should be made for the generations to come.

I was opposed to a new referendum but I think it is time for the British people to decide once and for all what our future in Europe will be and our relationship with other European states.

It is time for the quiet supporters for Britain's continuing membership of the EU to speak up. Most of the opponents of the EU are spreading fear and exaggerating the costs of EU membership. These costs are minimal when compared to the benefits.

Opponents of the EU are also taking a xenophobic stance and are trying to whip up fear of migration. They are exaggerating the costs of migration from the EU and ignoring the benefits.

Many of the opponents of the EU are also criticising migration in general and are advocating measures which will cause distress to British families who are trying to have their families live with them in the UK - they are trying to deny ordinary British citizens of their rights.

The fallacious arguments of many of the opponents of the EU need to be exposed. There are many genuine people who are opposed to the EU but let them voice their opinions based on facts not myths. Let's have a debate based on reason and evidence not on prejudice.

EU population balance sheet

In 1975 British people could not have cared  less how many people came to work in our country from other EEC states and the French , Germans and Dutch etc. welcomed our workers.

As far as the balance sheet is concerned about 2.3 million people from the other EU states have migrated to Britain and 2 million British have migrated to other EU states.  I am rather proud of the fact that 2.3 million people want to come to live, work and play in Britain and that 2 million of my fellow citizens find the rest of the EU an attractive place to live, work and play too. It shows a degree of maturity and liberality which is sadly lacking in many, many other countries of the world.   All this movement was voluntary. During the 1930s and 1940s millions were forced to move because of violence, war and the abuse of human rights.

A good reason for the EU

One of the primary aims of European unity was to avert the wars which killed millions of Europeans - we cannot afford to slip back to the early-20th century because of xenophobia and this is why I shall vote in favour of remaining in the EU despite its faults.

Immigration and xenophobia

One of the biggest issues, for the UK, concerning the EU is immigration. Many people in Britain perhaps a majority want a control on immigration. It is not possible to prevent  EU citizens residing in our country unless they are criminals. We have no choice in this and our EU partners have made it clear that the free movement of people is a fundamental principle which cannot be changed. There are other fundamental principles: the free movement of capital, the free movement of goods and the free movement of services. Britain as a trading nation would be the first to complain if the free movement of goods and capital were violated and quite rightly so. But free movement of people is the quid pro quo which we must accept.

Consequences of leaving the EU and migrants

If we leave the EU we will probably be forced to join the EEA trade block just like Norway; but to join the EEA we would have to accept free movement of labour. The simple real politik of the situation is that we have to accept the free movement labour imposed on us by our partners or risk being isolated from a trading point of view.

What is wrong with EU migrants coming here anyway? My wife came many, many years ago from France. She has made an enormous economic and cultural contribution to our country and our friends no longer regard her as a foreigner.  Her case typifies that of the overwhelming majority of EU migrants who chose to remain in the UK because they love the country and feel  loyal to it.

Xenophobia against non-EU migrants and its consequences for human rights

With regard to immigration from outside of the EU we face a similar situation. Many of our businesses and  public services rely upon migrant labour, we would be in serious economic and  social difficulty if migrants were asked to leave or were prevented from coming.

From a social point of view many British citizens have married or plan to marry foreign partners: what sort of society would prevent them living with their partners and children in the UK?

To completely control immigration is simply not possible without jeopardising our economic life or imposing harsh and unreasonable restrictions upon many of our citizens.

Migration is a two way process: 2 million British people have chosen to live and work in other European nations. Should xenophobia deny them that right because we choose as a nation to isolate ourselves from the rest of Europe.  Should we deny our citizens the right to move elsewhere because we choose to isolate ourselves?

The fact of the matter is this,  all UK governments no matter what their political persuasion will have trouble reducing migration. UKIP will be subject to the same political and economic pressures. To control immigration completely UKIP would have introduce measures which were unacceptable in a truly free and democratic society. Xenophobes should take note of  all this.

Of course, no nation state can countenance a complete open door policy but we must take into account  the implications of preventing people who now have a right to migrate to the UK from coming.

Money and Power

Many of the opponents of the EU criticise the amount of money that we have to pay towards the annual EU budget. Well they should consider this: Britain's total public spending for 2015 will be £731 billion pounds -this is an awful lot of money. £150 billion is allocated to Pensions.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/breakdown

Britain's  gross contribution to the EU budget is about 13 billion Euro or about £11 billion . The money that the UK spends on EU membership is dwarfed by the pensions budget; but admittedly it is a lot of money.

Britain gets a rebate on its EU budget which means that its net annual contribution to the EU is about 3.5 billion Euro or around £3 billion. Compared to our national budget it is not a large sum of money. In return for this we gain access to the largest trading block in the world and we have a huge say in how everything is run in this block.

If we were to leave the EU, then we would probably be forced to join the EEA  in order to trade with the EU and  then perhaps pay more than being an actual  member, but if we do this then we shall have no say in how the trading rules are set. Our trade with the EU and the EEA makes Britain hundreds of millions of pounds per year: do we want to jeopardise this?

The budget facts are summarised here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start 

Many opponents of the EU aver that the EU commission is too powerful. Consider this: the total EU budget is around 117 billion  Euro per year or around £100 billion. The EU budget is spent by 28 nation states representing over 500 million people.  The UK's budget is £731 billion spent by one nation state representing just 62 million people. Where does the real spending power lie, with Brussels  or  with Westminster? The UK budget dwarfs the whole EU budget. The same applies to Germany, Spain, France, Holland and Italy; so the real economic power wielded in the EU is  that wielded by the nation states. Do not be fooled by Eurosceptics on this issue as they are being disingenuous at best.

Where does the real  political power lie? It lies with the economic power; the EU commission does what it is told by the nation states and quite rightly so. Most of the mistakes made by the EU are the joint responsibility of the national governments who run the European Council  which dominates the European Commission. Most of the mistakes made on the domestic political scene are the responsibility of the national government concerned not the EU.

It is easy to blame the European Commission for domestic difficulties but really the Commission is mostly powerless; it only has influence rather than real power. All national governments blame the European Commission for domestic difficulties which they have brought upon themselves. What a cheek  - "johnny foreigner" has told us we have to stop polluting our rivers - how dare he?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/sarah-wolff/if-not-eu-who-will-britain-blame-for-its-democratic-deficit

Independence

Complete independence is all well and good but sometimes you have to pool your domestic sovereignty and make compromises with your neighbours to promote economic and social welfare for all. It is a big cold, hard and competitive world out there. More powerful competitors are joining the world economy each year, China, India, Russia and Brazil are all vying for economic dominance. Britain may not be better off alone.

Going it alone in 1973

Had we decided not to join Europe way back in 1973 we would have remained a prosperous nation but that would not have meant that the thorny issue of immigration would have gone away. We have spent the last 40 years integrating with Europe so just think for a minute of the difficulties of unwinding all this; we could get into economic and social problems. Why not change what is wrong with the EU from the inside? Many  EU citizens that I know, who come from the continental mainland, have the same view, we all want to make our lives better as we have a common European heritage. We all believe in democracy, the freedom of speech and the freedom of conscience and we all believe that the economic well being and peace of our families is of prime importance.

The EU interference myth

None of our neighbours want to interfere with the fundamental aspects of our political or social life. We can keep the Queen as our Head of State and the Church of England as our established religion if we want to. We can keep our jury system of justice. We can even keep miles rather than kilometers and drive on the left if we want to. None of our neighbours want to dictate to us how we run our national life. Does the UK demand that France removes its President and install a monarch? It is none of our business how France or another EU state organises its democracy. It is obligatory that a country is a democratic one before it is allowed to join the EU but that just the way things should be.

The decision

I appeal to everyone to think carefully before they cast their vote and not to get too emotional about the issue of immigration. In the main our EU immigrants have improved the economic and social life of our country. Of course, we have allowed some criminals to enter but we have also exported many of ours so the balance sheet is probably even on the criminality count.

The same reasoning applies to non-EU immigrants. What is wrong with an Indian restaurant employing a Bangladeshi waiter even if he is classified as unskilled? At least a Bangladeshi waiter appreciates good manners - do you really want to be served by a surly local who says "what d'yer wan' for grub guys"?

I am voting for internationalism and live and let live. I rather like mixing and doing business with folk from all over the world not just Europe. I am voting to stay in the EU despite some its faults.

The economic and social  balance sheet has been in the favour of all of European citizens who have benefited from membership of the EU or the EEA,  so let's not waste it all: it has been a positive sum game.










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